Cheers For Queers: Altered Perception
Isabelle Lieblein, founder of Altered Perception.
What do you get when a mechanical engineer-in-training currently based in Flint, Michigan has an excess of time on her hands? She starts a sustainable, upcycled, one-woman clothing business, of course! Isabelle Lieblein, 21, founder of the brand Altered Perception didn’t expect to be starting a small business when she began her education, but after getting inspired to upcycle and resell secondhand clothes with limited shelf-life through Instagram, her page took off and the rest is, how you say, history.
Upon starting the Cheer For Queers series on Envisage Amity, I reached out to an old friend from college, Kelly McGarry, who had custom overalls made by Lieblein from Altered Perception and posted them to Instagram. Entranced by the colorful, kitschy etchings all over McGarry’s crisp white one-piece, I knew I had to reach out to Altered Perception to see if we could chat business—queer business, that is.
Delia: So the first thing I wanted to ask you, in general, was for you to tell me a little bit about yourself. You can include things that your followers and customers might not know about or things that they already do. So a bit about you.
Isabelle: Okay, so I am 21. I am a college student, and so...(clears throat)...Ooh my voice. Of course.
We both laugh.
I: There we go. Yes. I go to Kettering University which is a school in Flint. And it's an all STEM school, so the guy-to-girl ratio is 7-to-1. Guys to girls, so that's interesting. And I'm in a sorority, but the reason I had the opportunity to start this business is that my school is kinda different. We go to school for three months and then we have a full-time internship for three months where we're getting paid. We can live anywhere we can get a job, basically. For three months, and we go back and forth and have a few weeks break in between, but because originally my co-op was in Maine, and I lived alone—I don't know anybody in Maine!—So I had a lot of free time, especially when I [was] first living there, and that allowed me the opportunity to start my business. Just cause, after work, I'd go home, and then I'd have something to do. And it was very fun. (laughs)
D: I can imagine. So with your major, like what was your major at school? Or is your major currently?
I: Yeah, so I have two school terms left and it's mechanical engineering.
D: Wow! That's so different from what your business is. I love that!
I: I know! I have a concentration in bioengineering because in high school, [I was a] huge math/science geek, so all of the guidance counselors said..."Engineering, you'll love it!" (laughter) My family members are engineers, so it made sense, but after getting more into this, the more I do this, the more I want to use that creative side of my brain because in high school I was taking all of the math and science courses, but my absolute favorite class was AP Art. I spent so much time on that, but I didn't use that as a career choice, so I kind of like that I have my business on the side and more than anything, I want it to take off and allow me to quit my day job. (laughter)
D: I love that! That's amazing! Oh my goodness. Okay, cool. So, a college student. 21. You're in university. STEM is your thing and, but you also do this. So, I guess, tell me about Altered Perception. Where did this come from? How is this a thing? Like why did you name your business that? Tell me about all of it.
I: Okay! (laughter) So like I said, I had a ton of free time. [I] didn't know what to do with myself, [was] watching way too much Netflix and I saw one of my friends, friends...So I'm from South Carolina originally so, I saw some of my friends from home, their friends at college were selling thrifted clothes on Instagram and doing really well. Bidding prices going into the hundreds for a pair of shorts that I personally think are...meh. You know...okay.
We both chuckled.
I: I saw that and I grew up thrifting with my mom and going to thrift stores all the time. It's like, "I could totally do that. And I think I could maybe do it better." Because I always find really crazy, fun stuff when I'm at the thrift store. And I feel like I have a good eye for thrifting. And so I kind of just immediately opened a little Instagram page and I think it was called 'Looks of Belle' because my name's Isabelle, very boutique-like. After getting into that, I started doing a little research on the fashion industry and within two weeks, it completely snowballed from me just reselling thrifted clothes on Instagram to having a full business plan. And...(laughter)...Cause I started...I'd never heard the term fast fashion before...Little did I know is that's all I bought and I spent tons of money on it because I didn't know that there was…[That] it was bad and what was going on behind the scenes because those companies don't want you to know.
D: Yeah. It's very much a secret.
Laughter again.
I: And so I wanted to be a proponent to help other people be aware of it because I'm super environmentally conscious, but that was just something that I wasn't aware of. I wanted to be someone who could help put that information out there and so with the different things that my business does, it first started out with, "Okay I'm gonna make clothes, I'm gonna paint on clothes." My dad was visiting me in Maine at the time when I was bringing it together. "I have clothes that I don't want. I'm gonna paint on those and make those cool. And I will sell those and then use the money to buy more things, but I'm only ever gonna use secondhand materials." There's no need for any new materials...ever. (Laughter) That's my personal philosophy too with buying furniture or dishes and [a] majority of anything unless I know very much the full supply chain of a company, I'm gonna buy secondhand instead except for...I don't know...Food...You can't do that with food. (laughter)
D: I feel like that's a little...
I: (laughter) Yeah. And other people need donated food, they...yep. I'll buy from a farmer's market, but everything I can, I get secondhand. Then from there, I started looking more into the fashion industry. Like, “Well, I'm using all these secondhand materials, no duh. I'm just not gonna put anything back into the landfills. I'll be zero waste.” And so I started to look at zero waste brands, and so this was in the beginning...March...January? It was more January of 2019 and there were maybe three companies that called themselves zero waste then. And I have a list of them and there was one that was actually zero waste and the rest [had] zero waste in big letters on their website. You go to their 'About' page, they're like, "We're 98% and we're trying," you know. So that's not that good enough at all guys. (laughter)
D: [It’s like] you're doing something! But, you're not doing the most.
I: Yeah. Exactly. And then there was...so I have...let's see. I have one, two, three, four, five, six values that I personally have to stick my brand by. That's zero waste, secondhand materials, size-inclusive, genderless, carbon-neutral shipping, and right now I'm working on making it more of a circular fashion cycle, but I only had three in the beginning and the third one was genderless because I was looking at tons of brands, just doing research on sustainable clothing and it really irked me that you go to a website and...men or women's section. You know, in a store. Men's. Women's. And it really ground my gears. (laughter) Especially because I have so many friends who are non-binary, entering that space and I think people would be a lot more open-minded to it because you go everywhere and it's like you have to constantly decide...Are you a man or woman? It's like, "Well, I don't wanna."
D: Right. It's like you go into a store and which side do you pick? And you're like, "Well, what if...What if I don't belong to a side?"
I: Exactly.
D: In the middle? Or fluctuating somewhere? Or if I'm not even in the spectrum of that? You know?
I: Exactly! Yeah. So that really...That very much bothered me because anyone can wear any clothing and it makes me very happy that everyone's on the ‘masculine people wearing skirts and dresses’ [trend] right now and I need to repost some of my old photos of my friends in skirts.
D: It's like boys in skirts, girls in suits. It's all over TikTok. It's all over Instagram.
I: YES!
D: And I'm like GET IT. Kings, queens, non-binary royalty, like...
I: Yes. Monarchy moods.
Lots of laughter ensues.
I: Those were my big things, especially because in 2019 I think I only had one friend that identified as non-binary then, but she'd been my closest friend for a really long time. And so she was who I talked to about it. And she was kinda like, "Yeah, I don't like it, but that's how everyone else is." That's not how it should...It shouldn't be like that. So I wanted to make my brand like, "This is what everyone should be doing. You should all be zero waste, using secondhand clothes, and genderless." And then the next issue I found in the fashion industry was an issue with sizing. Cause they'll show like, "Oh we're so size-inclusive. Look at our smallest versus our largest size like in an ad." And it's extra small and extra-large. It's not...
D: It's like...(chuckles)...The status quo. Like c'mon. There are people that are like (motions tiny) and then there are people that are you know, 5/6XL, and like that's cool too, you know? The ranging of sizes is a lot more than just like XS to XL.
I: Mhm. Yeah. It's been hard kinda standardizing those sizes too because there's such a large range and it's...I've gotten a lot of positive feedback and I think more brands should include plus sizes because that's typically what sells the fastest for me because there aren't sustainable options for plus size clothing. Any sustainable brand only goes up to extra large, maybe 2X or XXL, but I get a lotta positive feedback from that and it makes me happy [that] I'm able to provide clothing to make people feel good in their own bodies and know that it's sustainable. And from the beginning, from early on, [I] had my clothing up to 5X and then more recently in 2020, one of my TikToks went viral and I got a lot of comments like, "Hey, what about the people who are smaller sizes?" And I was like, "How small would you like me to go!?" So now I have down to 2XS as well and I'm working on incorporating that one more and it's surprisingly even harder to find than plus sizes.
D: Wow. Yeah, I can imagine. I feel like finding either end might be really difficult. To try to, well, first of all, thrift enough stuff. Then, you know, make it your own, but also have enough to have a supply chain...Like having enough stock for people to purchase. I don't know. It sounds complicated, but it's a noble pursuit and I'm glad that you're taking the time to look into these issues cause you're right, a lot of other brands don't do that. And it's upsetting to the customer base of people who want to shop sustainably and are eco-conscious and you know want to support zero waste or very low waste business endeavors.
I: Yeah. With the secondhand materials too, it's like, my sewing machine is secondhand. I use paintbrushes I already had or secondhand paintbrushes. I find my paint secondhand and for the clothing, I do try to not go to thrift stores first because there's Goodwill by-the-pound, although I'm not a huge fan of Goodwill. In general, I also don't want to buy out local charity thrift stores. So I'm trying to find a balance. I try to shop local, not a big company thrift store, but a lot of where I go to is Goodwill by-the-pound because it's all the stock that has its shelf-life for a month and then after a month Goodwill has to take it off the shelves and they send it to these warehouses where it's put in the bins...The bins (chuckles)...And so that's where I go first because I don't want to be taking away from...Like taking the nicest item at a thrift store when [there’s] someone who's going to a thrift store as their first option. And I know there's a lot of controversy right now in [the] gentrification of thrift stores and I'm not exactly sure the whole truth because I know there's so much stock going in and just sent to other countries because we don't have enough room for the textile trash here, but I've also, in Flint [Michigan] seen prices rise. Wedding dresses for example in Flint used to be $2. Now they're selling at Salvation Army, $100 wedding dresses. At...at a thrift store, so I've personally seen all of the prices rise which is interesting. And I just think a big rule of thumb is if you are shopping secondhand, don't do it in a low-income area.
D: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I think it also makes sense that you're utilizing the blue bins cause it is what's on its last life and that's where a lot of things that didn't sell are going. So I mean, if it doesn't there, then it's gonna go in the trash so you might as well utilize the tools that you have at your disposal and also, a lot of these are huge systemic issues, so it's, you know, you can do your part individually, but until larger corporations and a lot of other big businesses get on board, it's not going to change indefinitely, so you have to work within the system that you're given.
I: Yeah.
D: You know. You have to do what you can, which is what you're doing with Altered Perception, so.
I: And then the last two things about my business and one that was really simple that I did really fast was adding carbon neutral shipping. So that one [thing] every business should do it. It's not that expensive. There's a lot of applications you can add to your website. So you can ask the customer to pay for it essentially, but I just make it free and built it into my business model, but it basically, it takes part of the proceeds and donates them to forest conservation efforts that are carbon neutral certified and these specific projects to restore forests, plant seedlings, protect trees, so that's...It's [a] super easy, great cause, and it calculates the amount of CO2 that you're saving in switching for the shipping. The customer on my site pays for shipping and then I donate part of the proceeds from the actual item. More recently I've gotten into recycled items and the problem with those is [that] a lot of people want multiples of one type of item, but again, there's not a huge [stock] on what's being created unless I wanna drop way more money than what's in my savings account on them and have them custom-made. I do have [on my site]—and I don't know how I feel about it right now, not sure if I'll ever do it again—but they're crewnecks and they're made from 5% recycled bottles and then the rest is virgin materials, but I donate to make them carbon neutral, like all the emissions that were made making it. So, lesser of two evils because now I can have them from 2XS to 5XL instead of small to 4XL.
D: Oh! I see. Okay. So you're able to expand the sizes if you utilize this brand that gives you these blank crewnecks to work with. That's challenging. Yeah, I can see where you're torn on it, but it makes sense cause then you're like becoming more inclusive in your sizing range. It's like a give and a take. You know. You give some. You take some. It all kind of equals out? And neutralizes at some point? But, I can understand why it would be upsetting.
I: The only place I could find that does recycled hoodies and I could get them custom-made, in full-size [range] is the hoodies would be [expensive]. The recommended market price is over $100 for a hoodie. Just the blank hoodie. Not even dyed a color. It's just a white hoodie. So, I don't know if you've seen Pangea, but I'm sure they use the same supplier because [of] the price point of their hoodie. And it's made out of the same materials, so that's just not something I'm willing to do and I don't have the money.
We both laugh.
D: Yeah. It's super challenging. Yeah. Like you said you have to give some. Take some. And kind of like count your losses for certain things and then figure out a way to equal out.
I: Mhm. Yep. Cause I do think right now there's a still a little...A big gap because I even had a friend contact me because I have 100% recycled cotton masks because I prefer to have natural materials that have been recycled because not only is it a material that's being recycled, typically they're biodegradable, and then there's no microplastic being shed from them. [They’re] 100% recycled cotton masks that then I dyed. And one of my friends was like, "Could I buy one from you before you release them? I really need a mask." And was like, "Yeah, they're gonna be $14." She was like, "That's really expensive. I could get one from Walmart for way less than that." Like, yeah because it's 100% recycled materials and people don't, I think, see the value in that. They think that recycled should almost be cheaper because the materials have been used, but it's much more expensive. I'm hoping...I think I see everything moving towards—because we have no choice—a more eco-friendly world, so I think people might continue [to] see the value in it in the future more.
D: So is that the story of your business or are those the main focuses?
I: I also used my business because I have a bit of a following—it's a baby following—but to spread the word about different things about environmental policy that's happening, like information about fast fashion, tips to avoid it, how to become more of a conscious consumer. And then I've also been using my platform as a big way to spread information and amplify voices within the resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement, just using my page as a way to amplify voices and spread information in my stories as well.
D: Yeah! I noticed that in your stories and in your highlights. I was able to flip through those when I was doing my research on you and your business and it sounds like it's not just a business strictly in buying and selling things, but more so like a business that has things that they wanna say and information that they want to spread which is important cause I think a lot of people are holding businesses to a higher standard now especially like with what happened with the Black Lives Matter movement this summer and a lot of companies coming under fire for unethical business practices or racism in the company, etcetera, etcetera. So I think when a brand vocalizes, 'This is what I support. This is what I wanna do. This is how we're helping. This is how we're educating,' I think that's incredibly special.
I: Yeah. I definitely. Like when there were fires in Australia, I donated a portion of my proceeds then and stuff and I try to do everything I can because I don't really keep any profits for myself. I've either donated it or put it back into my business to hopefully grow it more. And give more people clothing that's better for the environment [and] make them feel good.
D: In terms of Altered Perception, where does the name come from?
I: Oh! Okay. So I took a class the term before this all happened and the whole class was on altering your perception. We talked about drugs and our perception of reality and how our whole reality is just based on the information that we're presented with. I had a ton of different names that I was brainstorming with my parents on what I should name my business. It was either that or Evolution and we decided Altered Perception was the best because I knew I wanted to use my brand to spread information and hopefully change people’s ‘perceptions' on the fashion industry and the environment. It was a writing-intensive class, so just a writing requirement. I ended up getting the coolest professor ever. (laughter) Some people were NOT about it. (Laughter) It was a good time. I thought about emailing the professor being like, "Hey, I named my business after you," but I know he would not care at all. (laughter) He doesn't even teach at Kettering anymore.
D: Something I was curious to know if you could do for me is to describe Altered Perception in five words or less.
I: I actually have—in my business model—[that] I have to stick to these five words. One of them is ‘colorful’, ‘queer’...My brand's really gay. If you aren't into [that]...If you aren't about it...(laughter) You probably won't be following my page. ‘Inclusive,’ ‘sustainable.’ I think I'll choose those four. I can't think of another one.
D: That's really awesome though. I was actually...I didn't know for sure. I didn't want to assume any gender or sexuality. Like gender or sexuality things, when I reached out because I didn't know if it was...Cause I noticed on your page, you had some shirts I think, and maybe a sweatshirt. There were a couple of things that said ‘gay’ or ‘queer,’ and I'm like, "Ooh I wonder if Isabelle's queer to some degree? I wonder. I'm not sure, but I'll find out." I reached out to Kelly and I was like, "Do you know? Are you aware of that?" And she was like, "I'm not positive, but I think so. There's no harm in asking." I was like, "You're right. There's no harm in asking." Actually, I should've asked this at the beginning. What are your pronouns?
I: They're she/her. And I identify as queer. Finally decided. I've known since I was small. But I came home this Christmas with a nose piercing and telling my parents that I like girls too. (laughter) So...it was a good time.
D: Amazing. No, I'm glad to hear that. And first I was like, "Oh no! But like, it's definitely an LGBTQ+ friendly company. But is it queer-owned? I don't know. Lemme ask." So, I'm glad that this was something I could add to the series because I want it to be strictly queer-owned businesses. And so, I mean I might also interview other businesses too, but I feel like queer-owned is a great way to start, especially because I identify as...I'm a lesbian.
We both laugh.
D: Also she/her. And um, yeah. I want to be able to uplift small queer voices. Especially during the pandemic. It's been hitting queer businesses super hard, so if I can give any exposure and utilize my skills to do that, like...Great.
I: Oh yay! My mom was like, "I always wondered why your brand was so gay?" My friend Diana has like...She's always very researched and [is] always very much ahead of everyone I think. Cause she told me about the Black Lives Matter movement when it first happened in 2016 and then was educating me, because I was asking about pronouns and all that way before I think I would've ever really thought about it. And she definitely made me feel more comfortable in myself, and being like, " I...I DO like everybody." (Laughter) Not just guys. (Laughter again)
D: The validation there! And you just reinvigorate this sense of who you are when you come out, and you're like, "Alright. I got this." And especially when other people can validate that too, it just makes it like, a million times easier.
I: Yes. I agree. (Laughter)
D: You sort of answered this question too, a little bit, but the question originally was "How did you get into upcycling thrifted clothing and why do you want to give clothing a second life?" I know you mentioned that you used to thrift with your mom, and obviously, an eco-friendly brand voice is something that you're passionate about, so is there anything you want to add to that? Anything you want to expand on?
I: I told you I really like art and so upcycling it instead of just reselling it is kind of a way to make something that—because a lot of the stuff that's at the bins is at the bins for a reason. (laughter) And is not attractive, so [I enjoy] giving it a reason to be bought again and then not thrown away while also being able to utilize my creativity.
D: What does upcycling mean to you? What drew you to creating an eco-conscious brand? Was it that or are there other things you want to elaborate on?
I: I think just that we have so much waste. There's so much being thrown away that is 'good' and could be reused. There's no reason to not. That's about it.
Laughter again.
D: How would you describe the style of your upcycled clothes?
I: I think that's something I struggle with because I love...I get really bored of doing the same thing over and over. I feel like a lot of brands you look at an item and can recognize the brand from the style. I mean if you look at those overalls that your friend got versus a lot of the stuff I sell on my site, I don't have a very consistent style. I'm very eclectic, so I'm trying to hone it in. I think the main theme is that it's quite loud, colorful, and a lot of statement pieces, but I am trying to hone in on a style, but I just get bored really easily and love creating new things.
D: Do you want a more specific Altered Perception style or are you okay with it being a little bit of everything?
I: I think in my perfect world, it would be really cohesive, but I just can't get myself to do it.
Isabelle laughs.
D: Actually, in relation to that, so with the style question, what silhouettes and shapes are you attracted to in clothes? Like do you upcycle in a particular way to stay on-brand with it or do you just kind of let it run wild?
I: I just didn't think about it at first when I was first starting out and I wear a lot of oversized clothes, clothes that are cropped, clothes that are cropped that happen to be oversized. I am never one that's gravitated to like a tight shirt. Maybe a tight dress for a night out, but I don't really wear tight clothes and I also wasn't selling a lot of crop tops because I wasn't wearing a lot of crop tops and I never really thought about it. Then I got some feedback from people who were like, "I love tight clothes, but you don't have [any]. You only sell kind of bigger, flow-ier items." And I was like, "Oh, okay." So I've tried to incorporate that and remind myself that people like to show a little more skin than I do. (laughter)
D: I mean that makes sense though. It's like trying to find that balance between what you like and what you want to produce and what people are buying and what they wanna see in your store. I remember seeing, I think it was a story, maybe a week or two ago where you were like, "How should I display these on the website?" And they were like options to pick. And you went through each of the various aspects of how your new site would be laid out and like what people like to see and they could vote in on it. I feel like that was a really great way to incorporate customer feedback. Was that helpful for you? Like did you get a lot of people?
I: It was pretty helpful. I did and I got a lot of people who swiped up because they couldn't choose yes or no and they gave me a good opinion on it and that along with the data was really nice cause people are really active on those which was good.
D: Are people fairly active on your account, do you find?
I: No...(laughter) It makes me very sad because I'll look at my insights and it's like 600 people viewed this. You have 50 likes. So I'm like, "Aw..." I don't know what I do wrong. I'm just not good at creating a super active audience and I think it's cause I don't ask questions or give prompts on my posts. I need to get better at that but...I don't. So, not super active. I would love for them to be more active, please. (laughter) It would mean so much!!!
*INSERT PLEA FOR AUDIENCE SUPPORT AND POST INTERACTION*
D: So veering off of the brand specifically, how does queerness make its way into the brand? Is it something that's a direct part of it or is it just something that's there because it's something that you identify with? Would it have existed, do you think, in the brand if you weren't queer yourself?
I: So in 2019, I was in complete denial. I was in a relationship with a guy in a frat and I was in complete denial or repressed it for quite some time. (Laughter)
D: Guy in a frat. Denial.
We both let out a laugh.
I: Yep. And so, um, that's when I was sewing sweaters that said, "Queer" and "Gay" on them, and my parents thought it was interesting, but...
Delia LAUGHS.
I: And I think people are a lot more accepting now and even friends and people I knew from high school, especially in the South were like, "Ooh, that's a lot.." Now they're like, "Yes! I love it." But I'm sure it possibly was because I've always known, I was just like, "Take that. Put it away."
D: Repress. Yeah. Exactly. Definitely. So it's because of you that you include queerness in the brand? Or it's both?
I: I think both. I think all the stereotypical way that queer people dress with crazy earrings and like weird makeup and really colorful is how...
Isabelle LAUGHS because Delia shows her weird chunky earrings.
D: Hi...
I: I love that. I did a TikTok where it was like, "If you put this on an earring, a lesbian will buy it."
D: It's true though. Yep! Hello!
Isabelle laughs again.
D: I am your target audience.
I: Yeah. I saw those TikToks and I was like, "I wear those earrings. Wait a second." (Laughter.) "And I make those earrings." I make it my style. Another huge reason why I started my brand was all the sustainable brands out there, [use] all super plain colors and I want to buy sustainable clothing, but I also dress like a crazy person and apparently like a really queer person and so it went hand-in-hand.
D: You wanna make what you wanna see. I feel like that makes sense. There aren't a lot of eco-conscious brands that are targeted toward queer people. It's just not a thing. I mean maybe it is a thing, but it's like less known or less exposed, so it's nice that there's an option for people, so they can come to Altered Perception and know that there's going to be something for them on the page. And in tandem with that, how does your queerness intersect with the queerness of Altered Perception? Where do they overlap for you?
I: I think my brand is actually more loud than I am personally. I think it's much more cause my brand is my art, so I guess in a way it's like an expression of myself. And the way I express myself is very over-the-top. And some of the clothes I make, I'm like, "Wow. I don't even think I have the confidence to wear that." (Laughter) And I'm like, "Someone's gonna look great in that! They're gonna look so good!" Now that I think about it—I guess I've never thought about it—but [a] majority of everything I wear is a clothing item that you could easily identify someone as queer for wearing. (Laughter)
D: Do you wear a lot of your designs?
I: I only started actually taking the time to make an item for myself as well really recently.
D: Wow! How recent?
I: Within these past couple of months, I was just putting so much out that I had never taken the time to actually keep anything.
D: Woah! But in terms of your clothing, do you...?
I: Oh, I dress like a maniac to an all STEM, male-dominated school in like a sequins bomber jacket, and another day it's like metallic pants. I just dress like the craziest person ever. Despite my environment. Anyways, it is very much my style.
D: And in terms of your fashion specifically, do you wear secondhand, upcycled, etc. Is that strictly your wardrobe? Like nothing new?
I: Yes. So I quit fast fashion before I started my own brand. And I've expanded more recently to also buying from small, women or BIPOC-owned businesses as well, because I'm like, "Well they'd really deserve it too." (laughter)
D: You're like, "I'm gonna put my money there." Well you know it's going somewhere worthwhile, so that's probably helpful to know. And in a sense, it's kind of like neutralizing itself because those are both marginalized groups of people that are getting hit from the system in different ways, so it's either beneficial or neutral.
D: Another question that I was curious to know about was your take on gendered clothing because obviously your line is genderless and you had a little bit of an opinion on gendered clothing in terms of the conversation you had with your friend where you have to pick a [specific] side. What are your thoughts on that?
I: So know that there are traditional women's cuts and traditional men's cuts, but I think depending on the look that you're going for, those cuts can look great on any type of body. And since my clothing's secondhand, I do put in the top, the size in parentheses on the item. But if you click on the description, it’ll say ‘Size traditionally measured as Women's extra small, Men's extra, extra small. Cause they're traditional size measurements because a majority of brands make you decide. If you're used to shopping in women's, you know what it's going to fit like. Men's; you also know what it's going to fit like. And if my brand were to fully launch and I had lots of money, I would hire both femme and masc presenting models to model every single piece of clothing, but I do not have the resources for that.
D: Maybe eventually? Another goal for the future. Something I also wanted to ask you specifically, because the site—it’s being revamped right now—it's not accessible to the public as of right now. But you mentioned that you will put up an item and then you'll have the Altered Perception sizing and then a description of what it would fit like in traditional men's and women's sizing. So you have your own size chart, correct? (Edit: The site is currently available to the public, linked here)
I: Yes. I do. And [in] the size chart, it says all the different measurements and then what that size equates to in both traditional men and women's sizing.
D: Are people receptive to that?
I: Yes. People really like it and another thing I always try to do is put the original brand in the original size of the item too. As much sizing information as possible.
D: Yeah. It makes sense though cause like you said if you're going to represent yourself as a genderless brand, having people be able to know what they are in that brand is helpful because otherwise how are they going to know? Cause it is strictly online correct? There's no physical space at the moment?
I: Mmm. Nope.
D: Do you hope for that in the future? Like would you want a physical space?
I: I think that'd be so cool. I think that the goal, the dream right now is not necessarily a brick-and-mortar store yet. I think that would be amazing one day, but it'd be really cool to have [a] personal studio and you could come in by appointment to either get fitted for custom clothes or go through the stock you wanted, you know? So, that'd be super cool, but...
D: Yeah! No definitely. I love that a lot. A personal shopping experience where you can create and curate a wardrobe, but you don't actually have to go to a store to do that. You can have a whole shopping experience. That sounds really awesome.
I: Or just like a really cool place for [queer people]...Like a really inclusive [space]...Maybe there's a coffee shop in it and a bunch of queer people come [to] hang out and also you can watch the studio type-deal.
D: Yeah! You can watch the studio. Coffee shop. Plants. Puppies. Cats.
I: That's all I want!
D: The queer dream!
Laughter erupts!
D: That's amazing! Speaking of personalized, custom clothing, tell me about your favorite custom piece that you created for someone? What did look like? What kinds of work went into it? Any that stick out?
I: I have two. Two for very different reasons. The first is a denim vest. And I believe they were 3X and it had the...You know that Japanese wave. That famous painting? So I painted that on the back of it and that one is my favorite for the reason that I got to paint a piece for the first time in a while. That was nice.
D: That seems like a big piece.
I: Yes. Yep. It was. That was great. And then the other one was for an eco-friendly company. They wanted me to create brand jackets for them. I thought I'd just be painting their logo on the back of a jean jacket. And I was like, "Of course I can do that for you guys." And they were like, "No. We want this..." And there was [a] more pastel, punk jacket and there was a super punk rock jacket. I sewed leather and flannel patches, did paint splatter and put the logo and some quotes on it and stuff. And I only started wearing black in 2021. Ever. So I'm not comfortable with that. I didn't even own a black shirt. I would borrow friends' if I really needed one. So very out of my comfort zone, but I really liked how it came out, so that was a good one too. There was one for the president or CEO and then one for another member who started this little company. I think. It's called Greener Life.
D: So those were the three projects that stood out the most?
I: Mhm. Yeah.
D: That's really fun. Are they a larger company?
I: No, they're a start-up.
D: Was it interesting to have a start-up reach out to you and be like, "Hey can you make custom clothes for us?"
I: Yes. I was so honored. That was so cool.
D: Wow. They reached out to you. How did they find you? Was it just through Instagram or through TikTok?
I: Yep.
D: And was that this year? Or was that 2020? 2019?
I: Umm. I think it was 2020.
D: And when you customize clothes, what's your favorite way to upcycle? Is it sewing, painting, etcetera, etcetera? Distressing?
I: I really like painting. It's definitely where I'm most comfortable. And what I know. Especially cause with the custom, I can't really test the piece out, you know? Like if I sew, do something I've never done before to a piece, I can't really tear at it and make sure it doesn't shred itself if it's their item that they sent in or something. So I'm definitely most comfortable with painting.
D: Yeah. So that's what you like to do? And it's obviously very colorful and fun. And when you paint, you said you use secondhand. So is that just kind of finding paint wherever you can find it?
I: Yes. In Detroit, there's actually a secondhand craft store. It's big. It's like a warehouse called Arts & Scraps, so that's convenient. But also there are different secondhand craft stores online. I can't think of any right now.
D: Do you ever buy new clothing or strictly use and wear upcycled clothing and accessories? So you said that you strictly do buy secondhand usually? Or thrifted, etcetera, so preowned. Where do you like to find your clothes? Where do you like to shop?
I: So I used to live in Maine for work-term. I now live in Lansing, Michigan for work-term. And in Maine—oh my gosh—it was like this Catholic charity's thrift store and they had the most amazing stuff. Every time I went in...Ugh. That was my favorite thrift store. And then I have a favorite thrift store in my hometown. And I have a favorite thrift store here in Lansing too. But there are just certain thrift stores I go in and every time I am so happy.
D: So, when you go to thrift, are you [looking] specifically for you, or are you looking for stuff to get for Altered Perception? Both?
I: Oh. So when I go shopping for my store, I always end up finding at least one thing that I can't not buy myself.
We both laugh again.
D: Oh my gosh okay. So you'll find something and you're like, "I need to keep that for me."
I: Mhm. And then I do take designated trips to the thrift store where I'm like, "I refuse to buy anything for my business. I will only look for myself."
D: Is there ever any crossover? Where you're at a thrift shop that isn't necessarily ‘last chance.’ Where you find something that you're like, "I wanna bring that into Altered Perception."
I: Yes. So Lansing has quite a few thrift stores, so I do go. I think there are three Value Hope thrift stores within a five-mile radius in Lansing. So I go to one of those sometimes to find items. One of their stores is a $2.00 store. I'm not sure if that's their extra inventory that goes there but, one of those stores, especially cause I know it's not a big chain. Like a crazy big chain, like the other ones. Besides those three, there are even more thrift stores in Lansing too, so I don't feel that bad about it.
D: Do you have any tips for your followers/customers/readers on how they can make some eco-friendly changes to their wardrobes in their own lives?
I: Oh! Okay. Yes! The first is [that] the most sustainable item is the one already in your closet. I'm in that boat where I love getting new clothes to express myself and changing up my style, but if you have an old shirt, consider cropping it. Consider painting on your own clothes. Bleach tie-dyeing a shirt that has a stain, mending it to make it last longer. And then next, you should consider swapping with some friends and doing a little clothes swap party. At my sorority, we have this credenza and if you don't want a piece of clothing anymore or an item, you put it in the credenza, and then it's a free-for-all. Anyone can take it. Yeah, just something like that where you're keeping it personal and circular in your own [community]. And then from there, you know you could buy from me. (laughter) I consider my brand on par with, you know, secondhand clothing in that all of it is secondhand materials, except it's upcycled, so either your local thrift store—again don't buy out a thrift store in a low-income area. Try to go to not a chain. Go to a local charity that has a thrift store. And then, if you can't go thrifting anywhere else, then online thrift stores. That's where my brand falls into play. Then—if you must—try and go to a place that sells items that are made from recycled materials and please read everything about their supply chain that you can. But I know not everyone can get everything secondhand, so I think just making good choices and if you see an item on, I don't know, Shein, try buying something from a small business instead. Also, [a note] on underwear and thrifting. From thrift stores, never buy socks, underwear, bras, or coats. Never buy those from a thrift store because that's where the people who are going to a thrift store as their first choice, those are the items that are always shorthand. If you can afford Parade (a sustainable underwear brand utilizing recycled materials), don't buy underwear from a thrift store.
D: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's making those conscious decisions. Let's see. Do you have any favorite pieces of clothing that you've made for yourself?
I: I kept a maroon ghost hands crewneck and that is my absolute favorite. So I came up with this design of these squiggly hands that kinda look like cat-dog, where there's a hand on both ends and they're connected.
D: Okay. Yeah. I saw that. It's very very cool. I really like that. And then the last thing is just a free-for-all. Anything else in particular that you want your followers/customers/readers to know? About you? About your brand? Anything. Any last thoughts? Not to put you on the spot.
I: My business is truly what makes me the most happy. I used to text my mom every time I got an order. It just makes me so happy. Interacting with this little community that I've created. I have people that I've made friends with online and regularly interact with them like, "If you have a question, DM me. Reach out." I really like interacting with everybody. I guess that's the only thing I'd want them to know. (Laughter) That I like everyone a lot. Everyone's always surprised when I reply to a DM. I'm like, "Of course I'm gonna talk to you." (Laughter)
D: A lot of companies don't do that. Or a lot of companies will just see it, but not send anything back. Or they'll just like it. But it's like, "Oh no." It's nice when you get to hear from the owner or the person in charge because then you can feel like you're part of the brand. Like you're in this community. And that they recognize you as a consumer.
I: Yes. That it something that I want them to know because a lot of times, I've gotten things where it's like, "Your tech support's really bad." I'm like, "It's me. It's all me." That's one thing I'd want everyone to remember.
D: You're like, "Please be easy on me. I'm trying my best."
I: (Laughs) Exactly.
D: And these are just teeny tiny questions. When is your site coming back up?
I: So, I am in a really small space this work-term and I have a roommate for the first time ever. I'm working 10 hour days and I'm taking two online classes. So this is the busiest work term I've ever had. Usually, I have tons of free time, so it hopefully will be out next week, if not, the beginning of February and I was gonna do a big, fun drop at the beginning, but now I literally don't have time. The site's going to be running a little differently until the spring or summer, where I'm not gonna be doing drops like I normally do. As I create a piece, uploading it to my site. But I wanna get it back open because I have some people that are like, "I'm freaking out that you're closing." And I'm like, "No, no, no, I'll be back." So I wanna reopen it for everyone, but I'm just not going to be putting out like I usually do.
D: Sure. Yeah. Until you have more time on your hands.
I: Mhm. Which will be soon hopefully.
